Curse

Damian Greenthumb · Sep 12, 2011, 12:26 AM // 00:26

Mascu, I most humbly beg your forgiveness for vaguely implying that more seasoned gamers can and do see the diferences between bots and crappy players and in doing so gain insights as to whether it is a serious issue in one format(PvP/PvE) or another. I meant no slight against anyone who may or may not be trigger happy with the Bot Gun.

As t whether I believe in bots or not. Yes, Mascu. There is a Bot-a-clause. Oh, wait. By using a paraphrased 70 year old movie reference I may be causing emotional distress to those too young to get it.

Swingline · Sep 12, 2011, 12:27 AM // 00:27

An easy way to spot bots without even looking at the name is watching the path they take. Most bots I see are contagion bombers who always follow a set path. I can't tell you how many times I have seen a contagion bot run up to yellow and stop within spell casting range because it cannot recognize the npcs are friendly. :\

RedDog91 · Sep 12, 2011, 12:27 AM // 00:27

We all acknowledge the existence of bots. No one is going to deny that there are bots.
However, coming on the forums and complaining about it isn't doing any bit of help to solve the problem.

You think you see a bot? Ignore it and keep playing. Don't spend the whole match chasing it down to "get proof that it is a bot". When you do that, you become as useless to your team as the bot. Simply /report and move on.

Jeydra · Sep 12, 2011, 12:40 AM // 00:40

ANet's support team gets more hate than it deserves. You just have to report them right, including for example all the people using the same bot in the same report. Be sure to include the times you saw them botting, because that's how ANet is going to locate the bots.

Quote:

Response Via Email (GM FruitSnake) 09/06/2011 11:38 AM
Hello [XXX],

I was able to find a violation by reviewing the game logs of the incident and the accounts were terminated.

Thank you for submitting your report and helping keep Guild Wars a fun and safe place to play.

Regards,
GM FruitSnake
The Guild Wars Support Team

However, I'll still say that JQ is horribly polluted with bots, sufficiently so I find it hard to be bothered reporting them all. There're all kinds of bots now. Last I saw, Assassin bots (A/Me with Ether Feast) were quite common, Air Eles as well.

Zatria · Sep 12, 2011, 01:08 AM // 01:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

I swear, I'm so sick of people going "but they make COSTUMES!" when whining about other stuff. Costumes are not made by the Live Team. The people making costumes do not necessarily know how to deal with bug reports or bots or content creation. They're artists, not programmers. They're paid to draw and make 3D models.

Never been in there myself. But to comment on your above banter..... if you try and open your eyes and look at the big picture of things, you will see what these other people are saying.

Simply, they are paying people to make useless costumes for GW1 (too many now). They can better spend that money on making the game actually the way it is supposed to be, humans playing it.

Kiki Go Boom · Sep 12, 2011, 01:43 AM // 01:43

Please stop demonizing support. They are doing a great job considering the policies that they must follow. They will gladly listen to your claims as long as you remain polite, understandable and reasonable. Currently, I have them investigating bots which are avoiding account terminations by using multiple IP addresses and so called "hacked" accounts.

If you have a problem with the bots, why not do something about it? Whenever I JQ, the minute I notice a bot, I take a screenshot of their names and after I'm done playing I compile a list of bots and send them off to support. It's not hard to tell who's a bot and you wouldn't be wasting any time during the match because it's as simple as targetting the bot and observing their skills (and movement on your compass) while doing something like running to a shrine.

I also keep a list of every bot that I've gotten banned and those that violations could not be found. It was very handy because that was what led me to the entire issue of bots having their accounts reinstated, which I'm discussing with support at the moment.

To whoever that said that bots are undetectable, you are mistaken. However, there are bots that are less detectable than others and these are the bots that I've got support currently investigating.

afya · Sep 12, 2011, 02:05 AM // 02:05

I gave up on this and many issues in GW. The support/GM/community/live team seems to become little or none since Gaile left.

Thenameless Wonder · Sep 12, 2011, 02:32 AM // 02:32

Botters are bad but what's worse are leechers. Bots at least do something while leechers sit afk at the spawn point. I like neither because neither are able to get any kills and are very easy targets for me

Here is their reasoning: if a rich person can get 20+ accounts, go create bots and have them run in JQ leeching up faction and Balthazar and maybe one account gets suspended after a week. The guy has collected (say 7zkeys per day on every char * 20 =140zkeys), this person then sells them illegally for 50keys = $5 or something like that. Eventually he makes some money and will use it to buy more accounts and make more intelligent bots. It's what happens, players just leave matches or report but most just want to play and therefore ignore the botter and it's they who win in the end

Gill Halendt · Sep 12, 2011, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zatria

Never been in there myself. But to comment on your above banter..... if you try and open your eyes and look at the big picture of things, you will see what these other people are saying.

Simply, they are paying people to make useless costumes for GW1 (too many now). They can better spend that money on making the game actually the way it is supposed to be, humans playing it.

There's no bigger picture: the two things are simply unrelated. They have to pay both artists and support people - who, as mentioned, are hired by NCsoft and not Anet.

It's just that artists do something you can clearly see, while GMs don't.

Missing HB · Sep 12, 2011, 08:36 AM // 08:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Verene

It really wouldn't change the elitist attitude nor the complaints about it at all, because then you'll just find people snubbing those who have to fill their party with h/h.

Yet, those players would BE ABLE to play...About dead hours being longer every day, ask anyone in game if they prefer:
- being able to play a format when they want to, although maybe losing more than winning
- not being able to play a format at all

I'm seriously getting tired at how joke HA is. Everyday i'm tempted to play before work , but i just notice that one team is having free wins thanks to their second accounts, while you cannot do anything but watching them( either noone in the district, either team stop after getting ganked by sec accounts in halls)
Allow 7 hench teams = more parties at any hour = less abuse.. Easy

tummlykins · Sep 12, 2011, 11:10 AM // 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by makosi

This is a long-term nuisance. They introduced the /report system with a 'botting' feature and I believe Gaile's botwatch wiki page is still open for posting.

It makes playing a chore, though. :|

Mod presence is the way forward.

Honest to god, I was a regular on Gaile's page way before the report feature was introduced and I sent in dozens of screen shots and support tickets about different regular leechers in FA back in the day. Since the introduction of the report feature (and tweaks made to it) this problem has been dramatically reduced over time and actions ArenaNet have taken have worked to a large extent. They also seem to be permabanning a lot of the botters as people who I saw botting regularly in FA and JQ were banned in the day of Dhuum last year and I haven't seen them since.

Having said that, I agree JQ seems to have a considerable bot problem atm. It's frustrating getting a match and knowing your going to lose cause 4/8 team members are brainless bots. Keep using the report system, I truly believe ArenaNet are taking notice of these accounts and doing something about it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mascu

--NCSOFT:

First, I want to thank you for your enthusiasm. I know that these kinds of players really ruin the enjoyment of PvP. There is nothing like winning when you've worked really hard for it. Second, I want you to know that we really are trying to find these players and close their accounts. As gamers ourselves we are more than aware of the detriment they bring to the entire gaming community. However, we cannot take action against a player unless we have proof beyond a reasonable doubt as substantiated by the game logs.

Please let me know if you need assistance with any other issue.

Regards,

GM FruitSnake

The Guild Wars Support Team

How's that for "Get off our backs and go play the damn game, ignore those bots, we know they're there but we don't want to do anything about it and they're not doing harm to you..."?

I empathise with your dislike for bots but I strongly and vehemently support ArenaNet's decision to hold off on banning bots unless they have absolute proof. I'd far rather play a game with bots than play a game where innocent players are getting banned. It already happens sometimes even with the reply you got, I don't want them relaxing their policy to get more of the bots at the cost of innocent players.

Coraline Jones · Sep 12, 2011, 02:26 PM // 14:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Greenthumb

Yup, Ive seen those names. And commented on them in chat. Guess what, they replied. "Too lazy to think of a new pvp name..." Active PvPers often roll new toons, its easier to just /random type a name.

What kind of made-up nonsense is this? First of all, why would you be rolling new characters all the time for JQ and FA? Does the meta change every single day? I know of people that legitimately got to R12 in Luxon/Kurzick by playing CM every day, and they stuck with just three characters at the very most. Most of them only relied on two primaries and that was it.

Also, if you're rolling new characters all the time, you have to only type in a name ONE time. Why not just use the same stupid name as the one you just deleted? What do you care, since you're going to be deleting it soon anyway?

Finally, if you're so darn lazy to type in a new name, which takes like what, three seconds... Well, it takes longer to go through all the armor and weapon configuration menus. I've rolled new characters for PvP and it's a total pain. You have to manually select all the runes and insignias all over again, and you have to pick a weapon and select all the mods and inscriptions. And if you're serious about PvP, then you need to have an alternate weapon set, and that's even more time wasted.

In short, the name process is the easiest and shortest part of character creation. "I was too tired to think of a new name?" That's your excuse? What's next? Saying that you were using macros during Snowball/Beetle Racing because you have arthritis and therefore deserve pity instead of scorn?

Verene · Sep 12, 2011, 03:19 PM // 15:19

Haven't you ever heard of templates? No, you don't have to go through all of that stuff again, because all you have to do is load up equipment templates and you're fine.

Asdf-style names can point to them being a bot, but not always. I've seen a few bots named like that, and a few that had 'normal' names. I've also seen a few Asdf-named characters that were clearly regular people.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zatria

Never been in there myself. But to comment on your above banter..... if you try and open your eyes and look at the big picture of things, you will see what these other people are saying.

Simply, they are paying people to make useless costumes for GW1 (too many now). They can better spend that money on making the game actually the way it is supposed to be, humans playing it.

Again, the costumes aren't made by the Live Team. The artists who create them aren't a part of the Live Team, so no resources are being taken from that. And neither the Live Team nor the artists that work on costumes handle support - that's all done by NCSoft.

Basically what you're saying is "Why should they keep paying their employees that they already had instead of doing what I want?". It's not like they just hired a bunch of new people to make costumes.

There is no larger picture, other than that people will complain about anything and 99% of the time they don't know what they're talking about.

Also, I wouldn't say the costumes are useless. People buying them is helping to pay for the Live Team to be able to keep making new stuff and fixing things.

Sciros Darkblade · Sep 12, 2011, 03:20 PM // 15:20

Man, after last night I was expecting a thread titled "Sciros Darkblade in JQ. Pure incompetence."

I don't think sweeping some bots under the rug manually is the solution. The best thing to do is attack the problem at the source and find how to close the holes that allow third party programs to execute commands in the game. This would also be the most reliable way to avoid false positives.

Hopefully this is something they're doing for GW2 that they can two-fer and squeeze in to GW1 in the meantime. Otherwise we'll be dealing with this stuff for quite some time.

BourbonFan · Sep 13, 2011, 03:40 PM // 15:40

I have been playing JQ off and on while trying to achieve my Luxon Friend Statue and gather up faction for ZKeys. There really is a problem with bots on both sides of the line. Granted, there are some players I have been teamed up with who just weren't running builds optimized for JQ, but I could still tell that they were trying with what they had (trying to kill hauler, engaging other players in combat, assisting in capturing quarrys, etc) Now as been previously stated if I see a player with asldsfj akldjjf as a name I usually will message them in the countdown to see what kind of response I get if they send something back then I am leary but at least it appears someone is at the controls so I give them the benefit of the doubt. If I get no response I usually will follow them to whatever teleporter to see what they do when the match starts. It usually becomes quite apparent wheter it is a bot or not.

What I have been seeing lately is a grab bag of tactics you have your straight up leecher, could be a bot or just a lazy player, that just stands at the base and does nothing. Then there is the find a quiet corner and wait for it to be over bot. They simple run to a less travelled area of the map and stay put. As a bomber I usually see everybody getting respawned at least a few times during a round so if i havent seen somebody for a while i usually try to seek them out while looking for targets. Lastly you have the random archer attackers who have a very random set of skills that very poorly attempt to kill the archers. I usually will ask the person if they are having a hard time killing those guys. If i get a response then i chalk it up to new player. No response well that typically is a bot indicator to me.

The signs are there and its not rocket science to pick out a bot from a new player. I have been in several matches where I have lost horribly due to being on a heavily botted team and I have been on teams that dominated 10-0 because the other team was mostly bots.

Its frustrating at times for sure but bots have been a problem since the earliest of days in gw. I just hope that we have a more active presence of GMs in GW2.

makosi · Sep 13, 2011, 09:09 PM // 21:09

I can't believe that none of the Community Relations team have even posted to acknolwedge this. Or any recent issues for tha matter. Where to I apply for a job that pays for doing zilch?

I've said this before but I will reiterate in the hope that someone with influence reads it:

Remember when they cracked down big-time on trading in Local Chat? They were temp banning players and they even had a log-in announcement with warnings and threats about using WTB/WTS in Local. They actually did use the ban stick back then. Why not apply the same technique here and use threats?

Missing HB · Sep 14, 2011, 07:45 AM // 07:45

This just shows that the whole report system is a joke... There were a massive ban of bots few months ago, but you know upon those, 90% were easily PvE zos shivros farmers, people that didn't annoy anyone...

Today, there are still many botters not banned and still doing it and besides, the dishonor system is terrible( i love having to wait 8min in JQ/RA/Rollerbeetle whereas the fight is already lost or there is some runner...; also like getting dishonor becausei made a sync fail...)

haggus71 · Sep 14, 2011, 11:55 AM // 11:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Greenthumb

...As t whether I believe in bots or not. Yes, Mascu. There is a Bot-a-clause. Oh, wait. By using a paraphrased 70 year old movie reference I may be causing emotional distress to those too young to get it.

There really needs to be a "like" button.

Really, the bots aren't that bad. If you guys are "veterans," maybe you remember the whine-fest that occurred when people were given the ban stick for bot behavior. I used to see a bunch of those every day on the forums. Anet figures that the auto-report button is used too much by sore losers and people with thin skin, so forgive them if they want to investigate a little harder than just accepting someone hitting the ban button every five seconds. I think that shows more concern for the fan base, that they would rather make sure they don't ban the wrong people.

Abedeus · Sep 14, 2011, 06:34 PM // 18:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Coraline Jones

Finally, if you're so darn lazy to type in a new name, which takes like what, three seconds... Well, it takes longer to go through all the armor and weapon configuration menus. I've rolled new characters for PvP and it's a total pain. You have to manually select all the runes and insignias all over again, and you have to pick a weapon and select all the mods and inscriptions. And if you're serious about PvP, then you need to have an alternate weapon set, and that's even more time wasted.

Greetings, Time Traveler. I know you didn't have PvP equipment templates in 2006, but we do now! We really, really do!

nologic · Sep 16, 2011, 09:57 AM // 09:57

Actually the current bots moves in a circle around certain paths.
From the teleport near purple going over the bridge to green as soon as they detect a hostile npc they start spamming their skills in a certain rotation, if they opposing character dies they will continue on the same route.

I've been monitoring their behaviour for a while in JQ.